Beginnings: Part 1

Commentary (transcript)

Michael Dante DiMartino And this is Mike DiMartino.

Benjamin Wynn This is Benjamin Wynn.

Jeremy Zuckerman And this is Jeremy Zuckerman.

Bryan Tell 'em what you do, fellas.

Jeremy Uh, Jeremy Zuckerman speakin', [Ben chuckles.] I write the music.

Ben Benjamin Wynn, do sound design.

Bryan Alright.

Mike Together, you are the Track Team.

Ben [In a dramatic, hushed tone.] We are the Track Team!

Bryan So, this is a-the first of uh, two very special episodes that we were really excited to make. [Refers to Korra experiencing the memories of Wan, the first Avatar.] Um, we've explained in a few interviews, and things, but um, the-the Avatar origin story was something Mike and I th-originally thought of, I think around season two of Avatar. Um, we didn't know how or when we might be able to tell the story, what format or whatever, [Refers to Wan's story beginning as he flees from some guards with his stolen food, traversing the streets and rooftops of a city built on top of a lion turtle.] but we just had this idea of this kinda trickster character, and-and the-and back then, people lived on these cities that were on the backs of lion turtles, [Refers to when Wan intentionally neglects to return the power of fire bestowed on him by the lion turtle.] and we knew that this kinda trickster character was gonna go around and sort of like, um, deviously get bending, you know? Like, the different elements and stuff, and we knew we wanted it to be more mythical in-in tone and-and art design, and stuff. So, it was something we kicked around for a while for years, and then uh, Mike popped by one day; he-he had been in the writer's room with Tim and Josh, and he was like, "hey! I think we can get it to-to fit into the-the storyline," and I always said-I thought, "you never know when you're gonna get a chance to [Laughs.] make animation, so we might as well do it now," you know? And...

Mike [Interjects; refers to Korra, infected by the dark spirit that attacked her, talking to the internal reflections of herself, Aang, Roku, Kyoshi, Kuruk and Wan as tries to reconnect with her memories.] Yeah, I can't remember exactly, like, why it came up, but it was, you know, once we had figured out the Unalaq storyline, and I think it was too, like involved with Vaatu and the dark spirit, and Korra's Avatar Spirit and what that was, and it all kinda somehow clicked one day that like, "oh, we could tie that in to, you know, this first Avatar story". [Refers to Korra questioning who she is, or what the Avatar is when her past lives tell her.] Um, and then we came up with this idea, I-I'm always interested in like characters getting amnesia, for some reason, I don't know. [Bryan chuckles.] And uh, thought it would be a cool way to kind of give Korra something she had to figure out and experience in order to get her memory back, to tap into this kinda ancient...

Bryan [Interjects.] So, I always love when...

Mike ... Avatar thing.

Bryan ... [Refers to the rushing water sounds that play as Korra is pushed away from Kuruk by the undersea currents in her inner world.] when Ben does underwater sounds. I think it's some of our favorite...

A brief pause in commentary until Bryan and Mike chuckle as Korra turns around to see a young man standing in an orb of light.

Jeremy Oh boy.

Ben Well, I was gonna say, just to back up a little bit, these are some cool episodes, um, and-and they-and they were really fun to do sound-wise, [Refers to the ambient, distant sounds of birds and insects during the point of view shot with Korra looking up at the forest and sky while being carried on a stretcher by the Bhanti sages.] even from that very first shot of uh, you know, Korra on her back, and the trees. It's-I love doing subtle things like that because the show can, you know, so much of it is-is very powerful sound design that it's fun to do the really subtle stuff, too. Um, and so, underwater sound, I mean, the cool thing about it is that it's actually kind of easy, because if you low-pass, if you take a lot of the high frequencies out of sounds, they kind of sound like they're underwater. And then if you mix that with, you know, bubbles and actual underwater recordings, um, it's-it's cool, and you can kind of like-you-you can like take sounds that do not sound underwater-underwater at all, and make them sound that way, you know, like fairly easily. So, it's fun to be very cr-it-it's sorta easy to be very creative with it.

Bryan Yeah. And then for the music, Jeremy, I-I remember our direction was, not that it was anything we hadn't done before, but to just do even more kind of traditional Chinese [Jeremy affirms.] styles; we just wanted to push it further for this-this sort of ancient vibe.

Jeremy Right, we wanted to-to highlight it a little more, and sort of uh, allow it to have a little more room, a little more space to-to do like sparser things. [Bryan affirms; refers to the theme that plays while Wan tries to run away from the Chou brothers.] Like, we used the uh, the guqin on this, which we had never done before; and the guqin, not the guzheng, sounds very similar uh, word-wise, but sonically [Laughs.] very different. The guqin is a seven s-uh, seven-string zi-uh, zither. [Refers to the lone string instrument strumming during the establishing shot of the lion turtle city.] There it is. [Ben chuckles.]

Bryan Nice. [Jeremy chuckles.] I love it. [Ben chuckles.]

Jeremy So...

Bryan [Interjects.] Love it!

Jeremy ... it's super ancient, like it was, you know, it's-it's got an older uh, history than the guzhe-than the guzheng. Um, so, we...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, and I remember we-we-it wasn't like a rule, like, "oh, don't use Western strings," but-but I th-we-we were like, "you don't have to fill everything up with that kind of instrumentation, [Jeremy affirms intermittently.] it's okay to just let some of these more traditional in-Chinese instruments, you know, just have some space". Love that stuff. Very evocative and...

Jeremy [Interjects.] It was very human, you know, 'cause you hear the performance in it. Um...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, and you record it with such detail, it's always nice. Yeah, like Ben said, uh, it's-it's um, we-I feel like we pack so much story into these twenty-two minute episodes, and they are very-often very dynamic, a lotta times we have very dynamic music coupled with very dynamic sound design, and-and it can get a little cluttered, and, you know, it's hard to-to balance everything. I mean, luckily, we have a really great mixer, but uh, so yeah, it was nice to have, [Ben and Jeremy affirm intermittently.] it is-it is nice when you have those subtle scenes, or you so-you can make a little more space, sonically.

Ben [Gives an affirming murmur.] I feel like those are always very powerful emotionally, too.

Jeremy Yeah. [Bryan affirms intermittently.] There's a lot more solo elements in this, and, you know, as-that sort of works well because this is about Wan and kind of attaches to that idea. [Refers to the flute sounding in the background as Wan muses about how he doesn't power yet.] Like, here's a shakuhachi, right there, which is a Japanese instrument, but actually they share a lot of the s-you know, obviously, Japan and China share that lineage when you go back far enough.

Bryan Yeah, once-especially with like the instruments, and [Jeremy affirms intermittently.] they're all kinda based on-developed from instruments that were probably uh, passed through cultures, and stuff.

Ben And you guys sorta uh, planned on these two episodes to be a bit different in this way since-from the very beginning of the, like, writing process, right?

Bryan [Refers to the landscapes during Wan's flashback being simplistic and stylized as though they were drawn and colored with brushes and paint.] Yeah, we-we-well, visually, you know, telling uh, origin stories, I think, is always a bit tricky, uh, if you have a well-established, you know, world, or something. And-and um, I think one danger is it just feels too normal, or like, you know, we were trying to tell a story from ten-thousand years ago, and if it just looked like a normal Korra scene, it might not feel special and ancient enough, it might feel [Ben affirmingly murmurs intermittently.] just too kind of like mundane, I guess is the word? And so, Mike and I both thought if we really push the traditional, you know, the-the-the look of it is-is a combination of, uh, ink wash Chinese painting, you know, influenced stuff, and then Japanese woodblock printing. [Refers to the lighter color palettes of the people in Wan's flashback.] Um, so we combined those two, ke-kept the character style the same, we just changed the coloring, and-and did a lot less shadows so they were flatter and a lot less dark colors. Um, you see like, Wan, if he was in like normal Korra, you know, time, would probably have like almost black hair, or something, but we gave him this kind of faded, bluish tone, you know? It just-with more like faded kinda colors.

Mike [Refers to Wan using his power of fire for the first time, the emanated fire depicted like swirling, flaming clouds.] Yeah, and even the-like, you can see the effects are drawn [Ben affirms.] differently, [Ben gives an affirming murmur.] like it's not the realistic fire thing or...

Bryan [Interjects.] That was influenced by a lotta Tibetan scrolls, uh, Tibetan tapestry kind of paintings. [Refers to the swirling, puffy clouds in the sky.] Um, you know, the stylized clouds and flames, and...

Ben [Interjects.] And in-in terms of the pacing, is that something you had decided like way early on, I-I'm sure when you were writing it, right?

Bryan Um, yeah, I mean, we-I guess we knew it'd be kind of a tentpole, two-episode thing; you guys figured that out pretty early, right?

Mike Oh yeah, the story, yeah, I think once we started talking about doing this story, we realized it would be hard to, we were-we wanted to give it enough time to, you know, be able to tell this story, so we knew we would take two episodes to do it. And since we had f-fourteen episodes for this um, Book, we figured we had a l-we had a little extra, you know, compared to Book One, which was twelve episodes, we had a little extra time to uh, take a little detour.

Ben [Refers to the scene fading in from black to Wan leading his friend Jaya and some other citizens to demand food from the Chous.] The other fun thing about acts like that that don't have a ton of action is that, you know, and one of the cra-you know, and some of the crazy Korra fights, there is so much going on that it can be hard to dedicate your attention to any one little element, and-but when, you know, there's something like that, you can really make it so detailed that it's fun.

Bryan [Brief pause.] I'm just so happy with... everything, and the-the-the voice acting. [Refers to Wan yelling at the Chous to open their gates.] Um, Steve Yeun did an awesome job, one of his first voiceover jobs that he's done, and uh, did a great job as Wan, and that was really crucial because here we are [Laughs.] introducing, you know, not only a new character, but, "hey, everyone, this is the very first Avatar," and you know, you're-you have two episodes to try to get people to like him, and to tell his whole life story, you know? And it was tall order, so it was basically like a little movie; I mean, [Mike affirms.] there were tons o' designs. [Ben gives an affirming murmur.] Um, but Studio Mir uh, you know, we-unfortunately, we weren't able to work with them for the first half of Book Two as we had for all of Book One, um, but we were able to-to have them do these two episodes, and uh, as a result, it just-the way scheduling worked out, they worked on these for a very long time, and these were two of the first episodes we did this seas-you remember, guys? We did these first.

Ben [Laughs.] Yeah.

Bryan Yeah, the whole se...

Ben [Interjects.] That's why it feels so long ago, [Bryan affirms.] it feels so long ago.

Jeremy I was gonna say that. That-that really helped set up a lotta things up, though, because we were really fresh, we came in, and there were a lotta new ideas introduced in these uh, two episodes. [Ben gives an affirming murmur.] So, for me, like musically, there were several themes that were introduced here that became a really important part of Book Two... um, so that worked out really well, actually. [Bryan affirms; refers to the theme that plays when the lion turtle raises its head to grant Wan and the hunters the power of fire.] And then there's actually the whole lion turtle thing, um, little bit o' trivia, that was derived from uh, uh, Avatar: The Last Airbender lion turtle uh, motif in the finale.

Bryan Cool.

Jeremy And it was, you know, developed uh, over the course of Book Two.

Bryan I don't think I knew that. [Jeremy affirms.] See? I-I was just saying in the last uh, commentary, I l-I love-I love it when I learn something [Ben chuckles.] new in these [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] commentaries.

Jeremy I'm usually pretty sneaky about that stuff. [Ben and Jeremy chuckle.]

Bryan [Laughs.] Yeah, I mean, we-that was, on Avatar, I remember you were-you were really like motivated to like try to write new themes for each character, [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] and-and um, and then it was a very conscious decision when we got to The Legend of Korra, like, "hey, it's okay to reuse themes more," and-and [Jeremy affirms.] you still develop 'em a l-a lot. Um...

Jeremy [Interjects.] There's a lot-lot less new ideas and a lot more developing, which I actually am enjoying more.

Bryan Yeah, I love it. You-you-'cause you get this kind of emotional, [Jeremy affirms.] you know, familiarity with the themes and the melodies.

Jeremy Right, and you can do a lot more with it, like so when it resolves in different way than you're used to, [Bryan affirms.] that tells the-the, you know, the list-the audience something.

Bryan Totally.

Ben I just-I like these 'cause I learn so much new.

Bryan [Laughs; refers to the thrumming, natural sounds as Wan walks through the Spirit Wilds.] So, here's some great sound design that you did, Ben, these-all these crazy...

Ben [In the background.] Oh, this was fun.

Bryan ... atmospheres.

Ben Yeah, it's cool.

Bryan Um, the kinda ambient sounds [Ben affirms.] that you hear in these environments.

Ben [Gives an affirming murmur.] This was really fun. I-so, the ambiences are, um, sort-they're jungles, like a lotta different jungles but pitched down, so they're um, different, you know? But sort of familiar, and-and they're very alive, uh, and we-we talked about that, too, like it should feel like there's life everywhere; and I love-I love-I just-I love that sound. [Refers to the frog spirit, now towering over Wan after it grew in size, trying to stomp the young man and wrap its tongue around him.] And then, yeah, these crazy creatures; I mean, each one is kinda unique, but they were all, [Laughs.] they were definitely all challenging because it kinda, you know, squishy, uh, big and impactful, and also kinda scary and playful, so there was just like a ver-very wide range of...

Mike [Interjects; refers to when the Venus fly trap burped after it spat out Wan.] Yeah, I like that...

Ben ... things.

Mike ... you had that guy burp. [Bryan chuckles.]

Ben [Laughs.] Yeah.

Bryan Yeah, we...

Ben [Interjects; refers to the spirit jumping along the ground, its legs long, spindly and taloned, its body a puffball with eyes and a beak.] Now look at that-that guy.

Mike [Refers to the "bwoop" sound that plays as the spirit jumps away.] That little guy's what-he's what-that was one of my favorite sounds.

Bryan Really? [Ben laughs.]

Mike The li-the little... [Makes several "bwoop" noises.]

Bryan Yeah.

Ben That's a, yeah, it's funny because that's been a-like a challenge of-something that I think that we've been trying to do, consciously or not, um, different with Korra than Avatar is we're playing the sort of comedic sound design differently.

Bryan Yeah, it's more realistic, I think, in Korra.

Ben Yeah, definitely, and it's like coming from a-a realistic sound instead like sort of a-a synth, [Bryan and Mike affirm.] or some sort of-something very um, synthetic.

Bryan So, the...

Ben [Interjects; refers to the hornets buzzing around Wan's face after he tries taking a bite out of their nest.] That was fun, too.

Bryan ... yeah, I remember talking about those-these Spirit Wild ambience-ambiences, we didn't want them to sound too sci-fi. And [Ben affirms.] yeah, we wanted to make sure it felt organic, so yeah, [Ben affirmingly murmurs intermittently.] it was cool that you manipulated really organic source material, you know, like stuff from f-forests and jungles.

Ben Yeah. I mean, that's honestly, that's another huge challenge with the show is um, portraying these things that aren't natural in our-our world in a sort of naturalistic way that isn't sci-fi; it-it's, [Bryan affirms.]'cause it's such a fine line, you know? And there are times where it's cert-certain parts of a sound, you know, we'll get the note that it's too-too, you know, it's-it's-it's like going a little bit over that sci-fi line, but...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, and tha-I remember that happened on a few, you, I mean, [Laughs.] I f-we felt bad for you 'cause like... towards, you know, especially in the next episode, there's just crazy like portal energy, Harmonic [Ben affirms.] Convergence sounds, and making these giant celestial sounds, yes, sometimes, it just-it just, you know, like you said, crossed the line. But-but uh, I mean, you had like nineteen different layers for every [Laughs.] sound. So...

Ben [Interjects.] Yeah, it was so intense.

Jeremy[Laughs.] It was.

Bryan We-it was-it was ea-you know, it wasn't a big deal to-to just pluck out a few, and then it-it sounded great.

Ben Yeah, I mean, [Refers to the procession of spirits approaching the oasis, some of them resembling beasts while others are more abstract in shape.] well, this was another hard one, it's like, "what is...

Bryan [In the background; laughs.] "What're these things, now?"

Ben ... [Laughs.] what is going on, man?". [Refers to the spirits walking by the conversing aye-aye spirit and Wan, currently disguised as "Bushy the Bush Spirit".] It's so-it's tricky 'cause you also, you know, you have to tread that line of like the, you know, they're passing but it's not like the main action, you know? So, you c-you don't want to play everything, and...

Bryan [In the background.] So...

Ben ... it's-it's tough.

Mike [Refers to the quadrupedal, stubby legged spirit that opens its large mouth to nip at the behind of its startled, similarly shaped counterpart.] That little butt biter is [Ben laughs; Bryan affirms.] one of my favorites.

Bryan [Refers to the unique ways each spirit walks by the aye-aye spirit and Wan, some of them interacting and playing with one another.] Just want to all of the amazing little bits of character animation, there, by Studio Mir; a lot of that was just nuanced stuff that they added. [Mike affirms.] Um, a designer from Studio Mir did a lotta these, uh, creatures, and he had little ideas about their personalities, and stuff, and I think it was neat that the-the animators, you know, really took-took that and ran with it. [Brief pause; refers to the aye-aye spirit telling his fellow entities that Wan is just like every other ugly, destructive human.] This is our aye-aye guy, he's-he's a fun-fun other character.

Mike Yeah, I remember I was trying to, when I was writing this episode, like trying to come up with a creature guy we hadn't, 'cause we usually-we have like the spirit-y spirit guys who don't talk or anything, and then there's like more of these creature spirits who are-who are spirits but they're almost more like hybrid animals that we usually do. So...

Bryan [Interjects.] We had that like monkey guru guy in uh...

Mike [Interjects.] Yeah, I was just trying to find a different, a new kind of like...

Bryan [In the background.] Mon...

Mike ... humanoid [Bryan affirms.] character that we could use, and looked up aye-ayes, and they were just like [Ben chuckles.] the craziest lookin' [Jeremy chuckles.] kinda monkeyish guys. Um, so thought he'd make a funny, cool creature.

Bryan [Refers to the kind spirits who tell Wan about the other lion turtle cities in the world.] And I-I really liked that we used kids for those uh, [Mike and Jeremy affirm.] for those-it just [Jeremy affirms.] makes those characters so much more charming to me. [Ben gives an affirming murmur; refers to the string instrument playing in the background as Wan treks through the Spirit Wilds after storming away from the oasis.] Yeah, man, I love it when you can just have like some rumbling ambience in the back [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] and just let the instrument hang out.

Jeremy Yeah, lotta space.

Bryan You can really hear the physicality of that, those instruments.

Ben [Brief pause; refers to the cat deer, caught in a net and suspended in the air, mewling sadly as it stares pleadingly at Wan.] I feel so bad for that [Bryan laughs.] little guy. [Brief pause.] Creature voices, always awesome... that I don't do, I'll just point that... [Ben and Jeremy laugh.]

Bryan [Laughs.] Well, you know, I mean, Dee Bradley Baker, you know, obviously does amazing jobs on uh, a huge variety of animals and creatures, um, but, you know, sometimes there's like a-a-a-we need a huge [Ben affirms.] sound or something specialized that, you know, maybe a human voice just can't reach, and so Ben will usually blend um, sounds in with Dee's stuff. [Refers to the percussion in the theme that plays while Wan leads the hunters into various hazards in the Spirit Wilds.] I like that...

Ben [Interjects.] Love this percussion.

Bryan Yeah, the percussion.

Jeremy [Gives an affirming murmur.] Yeah, there's a lot of uh, time spent sort of researching different um, like dagu rhythms and paigu, different Chinese rhythms; and this episode, I really sort of spent some time, more than I had in the past. And like I said, that really informed like the action music for the rest of the whole season.

Bryan Yeah, I, you know, now that you say it, you're right. [Jeremy affirms; Bryan, Mike and Ben chuckle.] Which is funny because when we started, I remember we were like, you know, like, "hey, guys, Book Two's ready," you're like, "okay," and we're like, "but we're starting out of order, [Jeremy chuckles.] and they're two completely different episodes that really are [Laughs.] stylistically different."

Jeremy And they're the-like the hardest [Bryan chuckles.] except for the finale. So...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah. [Jeremy laughs.] And you were like, "oh, okay, [Jeremy affirms; Ben chuckles.] great, yeah."

Jeremy But it really worked out well.

Bryan Yeah. [Refers to the hunter who runs off screaming into the Spirit Wilds, horrified at his altered, bestial appearance after being possessed by the aye-aye spirit.] Always wondered what happened to this guy after he ran away. [Ben chuckles.]

Jeremy Yeah. Just totally freaks me out. [Bryan laughs.]

Mike He...

Ben [Interjects.] I know, yeah.

Mike He's livin' in the woods, man.

Ben He had a great, beautiful existence.

Bryan Oh boy.

Mike Yeah. [Brief pause; refers to one of Wan's friends, Yao, having bark growing over his skin after being possessed by a spirit in the past.] Well, yeah, him and-and tr-and the tree guy you saw earlier, that was all to kinda set up this idea that humans and spirits could be kind of combined, um, but it usually ended not well [Jeremy affirms; Mike and Bryan chuckle.] for the human. [Jeremy affirms.] Um, so when Wan later fuses with Raava, it's uh, you know, it's-it's-you think, "well, maybe he's not gonna get outta this one so good." [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.]

Bryan [Refers to Wan opting to stay in the Spirit Wilds and learn more about the spirits after they heal him for saving the cat deer.] And the idea with Wan is that he-he spent more time in the wilds than any other humans had, and he spent more time with the spirits, and-and every time he and Raava combined, it-it was changing him; [Mike affirms.] he was sort of evolving. So...

Jeremy [Interjects; refers to Wan living off scraps with his friends in the outskirts of the lion turtle city.] What's interesting about Wan is that, in the beginning, he's not really that special of a person. He just sort of...

Mike [Interjects.] Just a regular cat, man.

Jeremy Yeah, just a dude. [Ben chuckles.]

Mike Yeah. Dude, yeah. [Jeremy affirms.]

Ben A free spirit for sure.

Jeremy I mean, yeah, definitely free spirit but, you know, he really evolves.

Bryan So, the...

Ben [Interjects.] May-maybe I'm the next Avatar. [Bryan laughs.]

Jeremy Maybe. Why not.

Bryan So, character design-wise, uh, the, you know, I did not consciously design Aang to look like Mike, but, [Mike chuckles intermittently.] you know, the pleasing, round, bald head, um, everybody was always like, "is that you? Is that you?". So, you know, we-we-we gave adult Aang Mike's uh, beard, and everything.

Ben Just like Mako and me, right?

Bryan T-t-exactly. [Mike and Jeremy chuckle.] So, Mako and Ben end up looking kinda similar, and uh, but uh, with-so, the idea is like, "okay, if-if the first Avatar we introduced to the world was uh, Mike, then the-the-the origin Avatar was gonna be a scrawny, uh, narrow-headed guy like me, [Laughs.] with-with pointy uh, eyebrows."

Ben [Refers to Wan's hair being longer as he defends the spirit oasis from the hunters.] Still cool hair, though. [Bryan affirms.]

Mike This is how you know time has passed... [Jeremy chuckles.]

Bryan [In the background.] 'Cause his hair.

Mike ... his crazy hair gets longer [Bryan affirms; Ben chuckles.] and longer. Yeah, it's like since we don't do like chyrons and, you know, like explaining how much time has passed, it's...

Ben [Interjects; refers to Mike saying "chyron".] What's that?

Mike ... it's kind of implied

Bryan The little-the little...

Mike [Interjects.] You know, like the little like, "One Year Later".

Ben Oh. [Bryan affirms.]

Mike But the idea is like this was like he spent like a y-you know, a year here hangin' out with the spirits, and then another year before he [Bryan affirms.] takes off. [Refers to the scene transitioning from Wan learning the Dancing Dragon form from an actual dragon to using his new style to overpower the hunters.] So, like a couple years pass in just a few seconds. [Laughs.]

Bryan Those designs were later-when you first meet him, he's supposed to be eighteen, [Refers to when Wan was defending the oasis.] that scene we just wa-saw, he was nineteen, and then the whole... the whole Harmonic Convergence thing, he's like twenty. And um, but I should point out I've done...

Jeremy [Interjects; refers to the Avatar leitmotif that plays as Jaya leads Yao and many other citizens living on the lion turtle to go and settle in the Spirit Wilds with the power of fire, following Wan's example.] Little Avatar theme, Avatar...

Mike [Interjects.] Yeah, I love how you brought in, [Bryan affirms.] I always get all emotional, here. [Jeremy laughs.]

Bryan I was just gonna say, my hair was never as cool as-as Wan's; that was a f-a, you know, a-wishful thinking, there.

Ben I think the other nice thing about the slower pacing is it's, you know, it's some great music moments, right?

Jeremy Yeah, a lot of opportunity for these sorta sweeping-these sweeping moments. Um, and Wan's theme, which uh, unfortunately, I couldn't use that much because it was Wan's theme, um, but it was-I-probably one of the strongest themes of-of Book Two in my opinion.

Bryan [Refers to the sequence of Wan traveling the world on his cat deer companion, Mula, traversing through steep mountains, windswept grassy plains, lake shores, and sand drifts.] This is a fun sequence, this little-we don't usually-like-like Mike is kinda anti-montage, but every once in a while they're sorta-sorta poetic and fun. I just love seeing all these beautiful backgrounds and...

Ben [Interjects.] So, you coulda done chyrons? So, that's-that's-there's a name [Mike chuckles.] and that's what it's called, it's like chyron?

Bryan Yeah.

Mike Chyron is just like "words on a screen", I think. I don't...

Ben [In the background.] Huh.

Mike ... or, you know.

Ben Check me out, learnin'. [Bryan laughs.]

Mike [Laughs; refers to Wan's hair and beard being longer as he sees spirits fleeing from something.] So, yeah, that was the-the-more time passed of him traveling, you know... [Jeremy affirms.]

Bryan [Interjects.] You can tell because his hair is long.

Mike ... for a while. Hair's-hair's a little longer now. [Bryan chuckles.]

Jeremy Even longer. Got some split ends.

Mike Yeah. [Refers to when Wan finds two colossal, conjoined spirits, whose thrashing is destroying the landscape.] And now we get to meet...

Ben [Interjects.] This is getting crazy.

Mike ... the two spirits who will come into play quite a bit.

Ben [Refers to the spirits crushing forests and collapsing mountains in their throes.] This was, oh, this was another big sound challenge.

Bryan So...

Ben [In the background; laughs.] Whoo!

Bryan ... one-one design thing that's kinda weird is... you-you know, and it was tough to figure out; [Refers to Raava and Vaatu's initial bound form being spherical, each spirit's discernable colors and patterns making up half of their conjoined shape.] when you first see Raava and Vaatu, they-they are in this sorta sphere, ball shape. But that is not how I imagine they usually look when they're fused; [Refers to the backs of Raava and Vaatu being solid colors compared to the patterns on their fronts.] um, I always thought that they would-were sort-you-you see how their-their-their backs are blank. So, I thought they were kinda back-to-back, so they were like light/dark if you'd flipped them over. But I remember I was just buried in work tryin' to finish up, I think, Book One, and remember Colin was like, "what do they look like [Ben chuckles.] when they're kinda fused?". So, he di-Colin Heck did these concepts of how they looked together, [Refers to Vaatu pulling away from Raava as she desperately tries to maintain her hold on him despite Wan's interference.] but, you know, they-here we're seeing they're unraveling, and-and um, not really bound together, they're just sorta tangled up. [Refers to Raava and Vaatu now only being connected by a single tendril.] And that, this is supposed to be the-the-the last little bit of their connection. So, a tough thing to explain with these big crazy shapes. So...

Mike [Interjects; refers to when Raava tells Wan that she was keeping Vaatu contained for ten-thousand years.] Yeah, it's like, the idea was like e-since they are fused together for ten-thousand years, and one is, you know, for most of that time is the dominant one, and as it gets closer to the Harmonic Convergence, [Refers to when Raava shrinks in size after her separation from Vaatu.] like the other one's getting bigger and they kinda get into this, you know, it's why they're always fighting.

Ben [Refers to the soft, reverberating sounds that play whenever Raava or Vaatu move.] They were definitely a sound challenge because they uh, you know, they're like flowy, floaty and flowing, uh, and they do those movements a lot, and so you're like, "wow, you know, should we give each one of those movements a sound? And then if so, what is it?" [Laughs.] you know?

Bryan Yeah, I think...

Ben [Interjects.] It's almost hard to imagine.

Bryan We-poor Ben; like the-our notes will be, "I think we need a spirit-y swish here," [Jeremy and Ben chuckle.] you know, or something, and it's like, [Imitates Ben.] "okay, but what does that [Bryan and Ben laugh.] sound like?". You know, Ben has to actually figure that out.

Ben Not a lotta options. [Bryan affirms.] And I think it-I think it wor-you know, it worked out in the end, but um... it-it-it's tricky, you know? It's uh, those are like the kind of-the grey area of animation sound, I think.

Bryan [Refers to Raava angrily telling Wan that, due to his freeing of Vaatu, that the human and spirit worlds are in danger of being completely destroyed.] So, I really love Raava's voice, and uh, the voice actress, she's from South Park, right?

Mike Uh, yeah, it's April Stewart.

Bryan And I'm a huge, huge South Park fan, so that was really cool for me.

Ben There's a lot of similarities, really. [Bryan chuckles.]

Jeremy [In an amused tone.] There is. [Ben chuckles.]

Bryan So, [Ben gives a satisfied murmur.] there you go, first half as a whole.

Ben Sorry our voices aren't pitched. [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.]

Bryan Is uh, [Laughs.] we-we don't have the plugins anymore.

Ben Are we still recording now?

Bryan Yeah.

Ben I'm sorry our voices aren't pitched! [Bryan laughs.]

Jeremy [In a wavering, deep voice.] Oh, we're actors.

Mike [In deep voice.] Mine is.

Ben I don't know what to do.

Bryan We'll have to do it manually.

Ben Yeah, this is my-I'm gonna-this is my formal apology to everyone out there; just-it just wasn't gonna happen. We've done it too much.

Beginnings: Part 2

Commentary (transcript)

Michael Dante DiMartino And this is Mike DiMartino.

Benjamin Wynn Benjamin Wynn, sound designer.

Jeremy Zuckerman This is Jeremy Zuckerman, composer.

Mike And uh, welcome to "Part 2" of the Avatar Wan saga.

Ben Did you-d'you miss us? [Bryan and Jeremy chuckle.]

Mike Uh, so this one, this is probably one of my top episodes of Avatar, ever!

Ben It's a good one.

Mike Hoo! It's a-this is a great one. [Ben affirms.]

Bryan I mean, "Part 1" is awesome; I love it. But it's just, "Part 2" is just...

Mike [Interjects.] It's just Pa-it's just "Part 1", so...

Jeremy [In the background.] Well...

Mike ... you gotta get to "Part 2".

Jeremy Exactly.

Mike Get the-get the...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Gotta earn it. [Mike affirms.]

Ben [Refers to Korra being suspended on a net while being partially submerged in a subterranean pool of water by the Bhanti, the sound of water rippling as the shot pans away from her.] I also love doing those um, sorta, like those water baths are fun to do, [Refers to the lingering "whoosh" sound when the shot pans back from Korra opening her eyes, beholding her inner world manifested as the colorful, underwater depths of a boundless sea.] and also the kinda s-weird, spacey uh, like, "where is she?". [Bryan affirms.] Metaph-metaphysical...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, we call that the...

Ben ... vibes.

Bryan ... the uh...

Ben [Interjects; refers to Korra opening her eyes in her inner world.] This-this stuff. [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.]

Bryan What do we call this, Mike? The like "headspace"?

Mike Yeah. Yeah, the idea for the-like that thing that Korra's floating in was these-I've never done it but it sounds interesting, these like sensory deprivation tanks [Ben and Jeremy affirm.] where you basically just float in the water, and you're like [Ben affirming murmurs intermittently.] totally in the darkness, and it's supposed to give you like, I don't know, clarity, or something. [Laughs.]

Jeremy Let's go do that after-after this one.

Bryan Yeah. There's-there's one right-there's one right by here, we should totally do it.

Jeremy Oh?

Bryan Yeah.

Ben Maybe we become precogs.

Bryan Yeah. [Jeremy chuckles.]

Mike Yeah.

Bryan [Refers to the cavern Korra is suspended in.] So, yeah, and we designed that cavern to be like a basalt, which is a crazy rock formation that I th-I believe, I've seen a lot of it in Iceland uh, when I was there, and believe it forms when lav-you know, molten lava runs into water and cools off really quickly, and it's a certain, when it-I think when it's a certain kind of mineral or, you know, certain kind of rock that's been melted, it forms these like hexagonal, um, pillars. They're really amazing.

Ben See, I wanna go-I wanna go there. I've often thought to myself, "wouldn't it be fun to visit these places that you guys draw."

Bryan [Laughs.] You want to float and pluck some [Ben laughs.] peachy...

Ben [Interjects.] Just hang out for a while.

Bryan ... apple? [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] It would be nice.

Ben Go to the basalt [Bryan affirms.] deprivation tank.

Bryan Well, when they're painted, you know, really well, and uh, the-the lighting's good, like they become real to me, you know?

Ben Do they? Yeah, so...

Bryan [Interjects.] I mean, [Ben affirms.] I really feel like it's like a place; [Jeremy and Ben affirm.] maybe I haven't visited, but I'm looking at a-a picture of a real place.

Ben Does that ever um, trip you out [Bryan laughs.] in real life, like you get caught up not knowing?

Bryan No, I never took it that far. [Ben and Mike chuckle.] But uh, [Refers to when Wan comes across a group of tattooed monks using the power of wind.] so, this was fun showing the proto-Air Nomads, and uh... [Refers to the monks flying through the air on clouds.] how they move, [Refers to the monks' tattoos ending on their foreheads, hands and feet with an upside-down "T".] and their old-their early tattoos. Um, this designer, uh, Il Kwang did um, did this-that, we were trying to figure out what their old tattoos would look like kinda pre-bison influence, and uh, he came up with that design, I was like, "oh, I like it, it's cool."

Jeremy Pretty cool.

Mike And uh...

Jeremy [Interjects; refers to the theme that plays as Wan catapults himself toward the lion turtle floating in the air.] So, here, Avatar moment. That's from Avatar, that melody.

Bryan I love it.

Ben Always good.

Jeremy And it became a big-yeah, like I was saying, so there's the example. I don't think I used it in the first half, actually, I think that's the first time.

Bryan [Brief pause; refers to the monk's huts, made of woven, grassy material, on the lion turtle.] So, these-these huts, the idea um... is that, you know, the Air Nomads didn't wanna like... make a bunch of like permanent architecture, you know? Just didn't really fit in with their philosophy. I mean, now we see they have these big stone temples, and stuff, but I always liked this idea that they were much-they were nomadic and they were much more about not leaving a footprint on the Earth, and uh, [Refers to the tilled soil decorated with large rocks behind the monks, the indented pattern coiling into a swirling circle.] so they have, you know, you can see they have these little, um, kinda zen gardens behind them, there. [Refers to the woven hut one of the dark spirits breaks into.] And then um, this is based on real architecture that these amazing artists make, where they just twist and weave uh, reeds and sticks, and make these incredible buildings and-and huts. So, Mike uh, I think had a...

Ben [Interjects.] Not like Andy Goldsworthy.

Bryan ... book.

Mike Yeah, yeah, it was a cool book I had of like natural architecture. It was...

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, not Andy Goldsworthy, but that-I-you know, that kind of work and I love his stuff, too. So, um, you know, Mike had this cool book of-think it was just ca-Natural, was it Natural Architecture, or something?

Mike Yeah.

Bryan And so, uh...

Ben [Interjects.] And you guys have cool reference libraries, don't you?

Bryan Man, [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] I've too many [Laughs.] books.

Mike [Laughs.] Bryan's got a lotta books.

Bryan And we've-I've moved offices on Korra like four or five times, and I am so sick of moving [Mike chuckles.] books around.

Ben Don't like records. [Jeremy snickers.]

Bryan Yeah, heavy, [Laughs.] very heavy.

Ben Vinyl.

Bryan I've moved-Ben has a giant record collection and I've helped move his records [Bryan and Jeremy laugh.] many times over the past...

Ben [Interjects.] It's the worst kinda weight. [Mike chuckles.]

Bryan I mean, we've been friends for a long time, I've moved those records [Laughs.] a lotta times. [Ben chuckles intermittently.] 'Cause we were roommates for many years, and I remember moving them up in uh, Santa Clarita and it was a hundred and like five [Laughs.] degrees. [Refers to Raava being smaller compared to when she left Wan, and Vaatu being even larger, with the former losing some of the discernable shapes that made up her patterns, while the latter's become more defined.] So, now we see that Raava is getting smaller and Vaatu's getting larger, and, you know, we actually-I changed their designs, I didn't just scale up or down the, you know, Vaatu gets more intricate, his pattern gets more, uh, embellishments in it, and um, [Ben gives an affirming murmur; refers to Raava's tassels being shorter.] and all the-their little, dangly tassels and things, hers are vanishing and her s-pattern's simplifying.

Ben It's a cool idea.

Bryan It was crazy to keep track of all that stuff.

Mike Yeah, I mean, that was crazy about these two episodes, it really was like doing a new-like a pilot for a new series in the middle of [Jeremy chuckles intermittently.] doing a regular series.

Bryan And then not getting to use any of that stuff. [Mike laughs.]

Jeremy [Laughs.] Right.

Mike Yeah.

Bryan Yeah. So, well, I...

Ben [Interjects.] You guys are always taking the easy routes.

Bryan [Laughs.] Yeah. [Jeremy chuckles.]

Mike That's us.

Bryan [Refers to when the monks were peacefully interacting with spirits in their daily lives on the lion turtle.] So, I remember the id-we-you-this was something we kinda changed late in the game, which we don't usually do big writing changes, but um, I wanted the Air N-Nomads to not be like the-the other human civilization we had seen in this time, where they were actually more in tune with uh, the spirits, you know? They-it just seemed to make sense that the Air Nomads, if anyone in the human world, you know, they wouldn't be so separate from the wilds, and stuff. But, you know, they still-they still lived safely on the-the lion turtle, but they were, you know, definitely had more contact, peaceful contact.

A brief pause in commentary until the lion turtle, listening to Wan's request to receive the power of air and his justification that he isn't like other humans, equivocates by saying "perhaps" in a drowsy tone.

Bryan [Imitates the lion turtle's tone.] "Perhaps". I always like that line.

Ben [Laughs.] He's so chill. [Bryan laughs.]

Jeremy I know.

Bryan imitates the lion turtle's ponderous murmur.

Ben I wanna be as chill as him.

Jeremy So good. [Bryan laughs.]

Ben [Laughs.] Could you imagine if I talked like that right now? [Jeremy chuckles.]

Bryan He's-he's much nicer than the...

Jeremy [In the background; gives a ponderous murmur.] Try.

Bryan ... the fire lion turtle. I always feel like that final-fire lion turtle's a little...

Jeremy [Interjects.] He's a little surly.

Mike Well, 'cause he's an air-air one, he's laidback. You know, he's... [Ben chuckles.]

Bryan [Interjects.] Yeah, he's like, "alright. oh, I could float there with robes."

Ben also imitates the lion turtle's ponderous murmur.

Jeremy [Refers to the lion turtles Wan meets throughout his journey.] Are they all related?

Bryan Uh... [Mike laughs.]

Jeremy Sorry.

Bryan Guess they have...

Mike [Interjects.] I don't think so...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Scratch that question.

Mike ... but... [Bryan and Jeremy laugh.] I mean, genetically? I don't know.

Jeremy Yeah.

Mike Well, I guess.

Ben Aren't we all.

Bryan Who know... [Jeremy laughs.]

Mike [Interjects.] The way that all humans are genetically from...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Right, if you go back.

Bryan Who knows what happens.

Jeremy Different stars.

Mike We'll do that in the next origin story, [Jeremy affirms intermittently.] the origin of the lion turtles. [Ben chuckles.]

Bryan [Refers to the rounded, tall mountains behind Wan, Mula and Raava.] So, this-just as an art director, this was just so fun. Um, Josh Middleton uh, who'd worked on the show for a bit, and he helped out with some concepts of what these backgrounds would look like, [Refers to the long shot panning from Wan and Raava standing at the edge of a cliff to the dark misty mountains, their bases covered in rolling white clouds.] and I really love this-this pan, [Refers to the lava streaming down the volcano and through the landscape where Wan and Raava train.] and these uh, these lava locations. It um, it just afforded us opportunities of like color combinations that we don't normally get at, and-and a-a richness in color. [Refers to the purple color palette for the sky and crags.] Um, eh, also with these re-kinda faded, you know, more-more faded palettes, too; it was just really fun. This, Book Two in-on the whole, is the most colorful thing I've ever had anything to do with. [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur; laughs.] Like, my paintings in college were [Ben chuckles.] so desaturated.

Jeremy I remember they were all, [Ben gives an affirming murmur.] they were great. They're all...

Bryan [Interjects.] My...

Jeremy ... super dark.

Bryan Yeah, my photos that I do...

Ben [Interjects.] Like cities at night, I remember.

Bryan ... I usually desaturate them a lot, and uh, or I used to. And so, this-this was me coming outta my shell, and uh...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Just something really...

Bryan ... encouraging the painters...

Jeremy [In the background.] Yeah, it's great.

Bryan ... to-to get colorful. Sorry, what were you gonna say?

Jeremy [Refers to Wan and Raava's relationship growing from reluctant partners to trusted confidants.] Just-I was just gonna say there's something that really gets me about their relationship, you know? It's like this beautiful relationship; it's not a typical-it's not like a-a romantic love...

Bryan [In the background.] Yeah, it's-it's...

Jeremy ... it's so much more, it's really a complex relationship. I love it.

Bryan Yeah, and I, you know, I-I have friends that I've been friends with for many years, decades now, but when we first met, we didn't get along, you know? [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] And I like that about [Jeremy affirms intermittently.] their relationship, [Refers to when Wan initially asked Raava to let him help her stop Vaatu, with Raava telling him not to interfere in the business of spirits again.] they did-they did not see eye to eye in the beginning, or at least Raava especially had a problem with him. Um, well, I guess Wan shot fire at her in the last episode.

Jeremy And the whole thing how like, you-you know, they just...

Ben [Interjects.] Just didn't know what he was doing.

Jeremy ... [Refers to when Wan and Raava become bonded forever.] you know, she's with him his whole life, you know.

Bryan Yeah. Yeah, I-I...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Af-after a certain point, 'til...

Bryan [Refers to when Raava tells Wan, dying on a battlefield and lamenting that there wasn't enough time to bring peace to the world, that she will be with him throughout all of his lives in the future.] I-I've seen a few posts from-from fans where they-that, just that line, "I'll be with you for all your lifetimes," [Jeremy affirms intermittently.] like apparently just really gets to people.

Mike I-I get-I get choked up at the end, [Jeremy affirms.] it's very emotional.

Bryan Yeah, I-I-I-I do, too. [Jeremy affirms.] That scene.

Jeremy I might cry today. [Jeremy, Ben and Mike laugh.]

Bryan It's great. I mean, this is about forty-four minutes, and, you know, with the tags with Korra, I mean, there's really only about forty minutes of Wan's story, [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] and we take him through this cra-I mean, there's just so much. [Jeremy affirms; refers to Raava telling Wan during their training about the eternal battle she wages with Vaatu every ten-thousand years during Harmonic Convergence.] There's a lot of exposition which is tough to deal with narratively, but um, yeah, I mean, I was v-I gotta say, I was very worried about these episodes, [Ben gives an affirming murmur.] I-I-I never knew if they were gonna work until they were done. [Laughs.]

Jeremy They're a risk, you know? But...

Bryan [In the background.] Yeah.

Jeremy ... that's why they're so great.

Mike [Refers to Raava passing through Wan's body, exchanging his power of fire for the power of air.] Yeah, we had to, we definitely went through many, trying to figure out the rules of like this transferring the power, and when he had it, and how many at a ti-like, there was a point where it was like, "okay, then he learns to do like two at a time," [Bryan and Jeremy chuckle.] and then it just got like way too complicated, [Jeremy affirms.] so, we uh, you know, the rule is basically she-she passes off, you know, she can fly through him and he gets a new element, or, [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur; refers to when Raava enters and merges with Wan's body, allowing him to control the elements of fire, air, water, and earth in order to stop his human and spirit friends from destroying each other.] and then when, in this upcoming scene, when she flies into him, then he's got all four. [Refers to when Wan loses consciousness after a few seconds.] Um, but he can't do that for very long.

Bryan Yeah, he hasn't evolved to the point where he can handle it yet. [Refers to when Jaya justifies the settler's conflict with the spirits to Wan by saying they're following his philosophy of not backing down in the face of those with power.] So, I, philosophically, I l-I like, not that I think that it's like, "yay, I like when things go bad," but I think this is a very poignant thing where any idea or ideology, no matter how positive it is, can be used in a very negative way; [Jeremy affirmingly murmurs intermittently.] it can be used to destroy, to oppress. Um, and in this case, Wan's ideas of independence and um, you know, freedom and-and getting away from oppression has unfortunately been twisted into this sort of "no regard for nature" [Laughs.] and kinda "taking what you want", and-and it get-it gets outta balance, and that's what we talk about a lot with Korra and Avatar is, you know, this idea of balance, and-and, you know, unfortunately, Jaya and his followers have-they're-they're-they're sort of using Wan's ideas at-as their core...

Jeremy [In the background.] To be selfi-yeah, selfish.

Bryan ... motive, but-yeah, but it's-it's-it's gotten outta balance and-and outta wack.

Ben I th-I mean, that's one of the main things I love about this show and Avatar, and I think that's why it resonates with so many people is that it's-fundamentally, it's about these very core ideas about just human nature, which I love.

Bryan Thanks, Ben. [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur; Ben chuckles.]

Mike Well said. [Brief pause; refers to the medium closeup shot of Jaya as he threatens the spirits, saying they're the ones who are going to be cleared from the forest.] Yeah, I like how buff go-Jaya got...

Bryan [Interjects; laughs.] Yeah, Jaya...

Mike ... in the last couple years, he was really uh...

Bryan [Interjects.] Late bloomer.

Mike ... he really-yeah.

Bryan Yeah. [Ben chuckles; laughs.] Wan's like, "yo, I'm still skinny, what ha-what're [Mike and Jeremy chuckle.] you doing, man?". He just like lifts these logs [Mike affirms.] that he burns down.

Jeremy With supplement...

Bryan [Interjects; refers to the thunderclouds above the group of humans and spirits, a distorted image of Vaatu appearing in the clouds as lightning strikes.] So, you can see, I don't know if you notice, but you can see...

Mike [In the background.] Vaatu.

Bryan ... Vaatu in the-in those storm clouds.

Ben Oh really?

Bryan Yeah. He's-he flashes in the...

Mike [Interjects; refers to the gathered spirits, including the aye-aye spirit, turning dark after Vaatu appears.] It's like his influence...

Ben [In the background.] Oh.

Mike ... turns everyone dark. [Ben gives an affirming murmur.]

Jeremy [Refers to the theme that plays when the storm clouds move in.] There's like a little Vaatu's...

Ben [In the background.] Missed that.

Jeremy ... a musical little gesture that-attached to Vaatu. [Mike gives an affirming murmur.] It's this little like... it's a string thing, and so I, like, tease it like that, like when you saw him in the clouds, you hear it.

Bryan Cool.

Jeremy I don't know how many people noticed it, but it was-it was fun for me. [Jeremy and Bryan laugh; refers to the theme that plays as Wan and Raava try to stop the battling humans and dark spirits.] So, that theme there, that line, that repeating line [Bryan affirmingly murmurs intermittently.] is based on a g-a gamelan line that's introduced in the beginning of 207, like the first-I think the first cue. And that also became used throughout-throughout Book Two. I...

Bryan [Interjects.] I really liked that theme, yeah.

Jeremy Yeah, it's-it's so simple, and it-it's sorta these overlapping-when the strings play, they-they have a different amount of-their line is a different number of pitches. It's the same line but a different number of pitches, so they overlap in different ways; it's actually a really simple idea.

Bryan So, the uh, the gamelan is-is an Indonesian um, like pitched percussion, right?

Jeremy Right, that's right.

Bryan And they make like a whole kind of an orchestra out of these different, uh, shapes and sizes and different instruments, right?

Jeremy Right, "gamelan" actually means "orchestra". Um, yeah, they have a whole orchestra of these different pitched percussion instruments, um, at all different pitch ranges, and they pair off together, and they're detuned slightly, the pairs are detuned slightly. Um, and the tuning's a little di-it's actually a bit challenging 'cause the tuning is not tuned to the Western tuning, [Bryan gives an affirming murmur.] so the-sometimes you hear it's a little interesting [Laughs.] sounding, but I actually kinda like that, like against the strings.

Bryan Yeah, I had, you know, I had-was not familiar with gamelan at all until um, you know, I don't know if the audience knows, but Ben and Jeremy both went to CalArts; uh, Jeremy was getting his master's degree, and Ben was doing his undergraduate there, uh, when he-when Ben and I were roommates. So, CalArts just gets these incredible world musicians uh, to perform for the students, and Ben would often invite me up to go to these performances, and uh... Ben, I think, had a class, a gamelan class, right?

Ben Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was in the gamelan orchestra for a while.

Bryan And they put on a concert, and I've never heard anything like it, and to this day, now that I've listened to much more gamelan, now that I've been introduced to it, I bought some field recordings and all sorts of stuff. Um, to this day, I've never heard a recording that can come close [Ben affirms.] to capturing what it sounds like in person.

Jeremy Oh man.

Ben Also, for some reason, a lotta the recordings aren't very good.

Bryan It's tough, yeah.

Ben I know, it sucks, it sucks.

Bryan Uh, the...

Jeremy [Interjects.] But the-yeah, the-the instrument itself, the frequencies are just so, [Ben affirms.] same with the gongs, you know, the big gongs are-you [Bryan affirms.] just can't capture that, you gotta be there.

Bryan So, it really ha-made a strong impression on me, so once we got to doing Avatar, I was like, [Laughs.] "we've gotta use gamelan! It's so cool," so I love every time we get to use it, and it's kinda-it's just kinda neat, just ties into our-kinda our friend history. I just remember Ben [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] wearing the [Ben chuckles.] Indonesian [Jeremy affirms.] outfit.

Jeremy It's the origin story.

Bryan Really-yeah. [Jeremy chuckles.]

Ben I remember doing the-I was in a... was it the same class? No, I took a kecak class.

Bryan Yeah, the-the... [Imitates the beat of a kecak performance while chanting "chak" repeatedly for a few seconds.]

Ben And at the end, we had to wear, you know, the outfits, which basically amounts to an adult diaper, [Bryan and Mike laugh.] we have to [Laughs.] run through...

Bryan [Interjects.] I saw you running around...

Ben [In the background.] Yeah. [Jeremy laughs.]

Bryan ... yeah, running around campus at CalArts. [Ben and Jeremy affirm; refers to Wan sending multiple fire blasts at a flying aerial Vaatu, both of them in the Spirit World where the portals between realms intersect.] So, this is amazing; Joaquim Dos Santos uh, went over all these boards, kinda reboarded this insane action sequence where a giant kite fights a uh, young man.

Ben [Laughs.] "Giant kite".

Bryan And um...

Ben [Interjects.] Oh, we're-we're gonna get to this...

Mike [Interjects.] Yeah, it's one of the-yeah, it's one of the more unique action scenes we've had, and like yeah, all the music you did, Jeremy, it's like-it's just like, I guess I love it 'cause it's, like, it's such an emotional f-battle. [Jeremy affirms.] Like, sometimes we have like, "ooh, that was a cool fight," or whatever, but...

Jeremy [Interjects.] It was...

Mike ... this one just like has so much emotion to it. I don't...

Jeremy [Interjects.] This was hard, too, be-this was hard because uh, it just kept getting bigger, [Mike affirms.] more intense emotionally, you know.

Mike Yeah, it's-it's a long one. [Laughs.]

Bryan [Refers to the reverberating and dominating sound effect for Vaatu's energy beam.] So, I wanna talk about this sound, right here

Mike Oh yeah, and then... [Imitates the "bwaa" sound of the laser.]

Bryan Ben's wall of sound, [Ben affirmingly murmurs intermittently.] I just love that. That's something that it's almost a little sci-fi, but it-it works. Like, it's just like we-we just wanted the beam to be, I think we talked about that thing from uh...

Ben [Interjects.] War of the Worlds.

Bryan ... War of the Worlds, the Steven Spielberg version, where there's-it's just this thick, thick, multiple frequency, you know, wide-frequency band sound.

Ben Just sounds very powerful. [Bryan affirms.] That-I think it's definitely my famous sound from [Mike, Bryan and Ben laugh.] any of these series.

Jeremy It's your greatest hit.

Ben Yeah, [Laughs.] that's goin' on, [Jeremy laughs intermittently.] that's goin' on the compilation.

Bryan Nice.

Ben Yeah, no, I-I love it, that came out really well.

Bryan I think I want that to be my ringtone, and [Jeremy chuckles; Ben affirms.] I'll just keep my phone-my phone...

Mike [In the background.] That's a good idea. [Ben makes a "phwoo" sound.]

Bryan ... turned up all the way.

Ben Yeah. It-it's based on-so, it's a lotta layers, um, but there are a bunch of different like large ship horns, like uh, [Bryan gives an affirming murmur.] you know, boat horns, um, but then mixed in, and there are some synthesis elements, which I think probably gives it that slight sci-fi kinda thing, [Bryan affirms.] but it also gives it the attack and the sort of otherworld-ness. But I also-the-the other thing that's cool about that is how it, like, it's just like an on/off, [Laughs.] it's just like a steady beam.

Bryan [Laughs.] Yeah, totally. [Brief pause; refers to the edges of Wan's body becoming jagged as his form goes in and out of focus while he remains fused with Raava.] So, this idea, this like fuzzy line thing is-is uh, that Wan is sorta losing cohesion um, to borrow a Stephen King-ism, he's-is physically, he can't, you know, he can't withstand the energy of Raava, um, combined with him, and-and his-his body's sort of like struggling to stay together, sort of.

Ben [Refers to the faint static sound as Wan's body becomes more unstable.] Now, that-that sound was really fun for me to design...

Bryan [In the background.] Yeah, I love...

Ben ... 'cause it's kinda different... different from something that we normally do on the show.

Bryan [Refers to when Vaatu whips out one of his long tendrils to grab Wan and slam him against the ground.] That's one-that's one of my favorite ones from the episode, the "whippy, crack!"

Ben Oh, no, I'm talking about the de-the-the little...

Bryan [Interjects.] Oh. I thought...

Ben ... static lines.

Bryan ... "whip, crack" when his whippy tail [Ben affirms.] was the part I was excited. [Ben laughs; makes several whip cracking sounds.]

Ben [Refers to the shot of the planets in outer space aligning in a column with the burning sun in the background, the sign that Harmonic Convergence is about to begin.] Dang.

Jeremy Har-Harmonic Convergence.

Bryan [Refers to the sudden percussion that sounds as the planets move into place.] That. That is one of my favorite [Mike chuckles.] sounds. [Ben affirms; laughs.] When that happens, man.

Ben With the cut to that.

Bryan [Refers to the string instruments beginning to sound as the percussion echoes out and the shot cuts back to the Spirit World.] The cut to the-the ce-the celestial shot, and you just hear that kinda chant.

Ben [Gives an affirming murmur.] Yeah, it's a great combo of music and sound, that point.

Jeremy It worked well. And then... it's-oh no. Oh, I'm thinking of the finale, never mind. I was gonna say...

Bryan [In the background.] Ben's sound...

Jeremy ... when I lay out, but no, I don't lay out, ever.

Ben [Laughs.] Naw.

Jeremy Just keeps going.

Bryan [Refers to the crackling, thunderous sounds as the beams of light from the spirit portals bend and join together, and the blaring sound that plays as the light from Wan's body temporarily blots out the world.] When Ben um... yeah, I just felt-I was like every beam of energy, [Mike chuckles.] and energy explosion and wave, and I was just like they all-they all had to sound different.

Ben [Gives an affirming murmur.] This was a challenge. This was a challenge because I-I, you know, as I said with the show, they're-there are definitely-there have been um, abstract elements, but this is an entire [Bryan affirms.] episode like that. And I love doing that stuff, it's really fun, really creative, but, you know, it's just like developing a whole new toolset within a very short amount o' is always challenging, but it's fun, too.

Bryan Yeah. [Refers to Wan, having permanently merged his spirit with Raava's with the energy from the linked spirit portals, overwhelming Vaatu with his control over the four elements.] Again, just wanna stress the incredible work that all the artists at Studio Mir did animating this; I mean, [Mike affirms.] this could've fallen very flat [Mike and Bryan laugh.] if it was not animated beautifully, and they just-they blew us away.

Mike Yeah, I remember when we all, like we all sit and watch like the-the footage when it comes in, and, you know, depending on how it-how it goes, sometimes it's not [Laughs.] the most re-rewarding moment of the process, but, uh, when we saw this, it was just like, we were all just amaze, 'cause it was so good from the start when they turned it in.

Bryan And we-we-when it's a really good episode, and luckily, we've been getting a lotta those lately, we clap a lot. [Laughs.] Like, there's just like six of us in a little, [Ben affirms.] tiny edit bay, but we're like hootin' and hollering, and clapping and laughing.

Ben Do you-I have this exp-sort of an aside, so I don't know if we have enough time, but I have this experience sometimes with music when I'll go back to it, and have no memory of how I did it [Bryan affirms.] but be really happy.

Mike Oh.

Ben Does-does that happen to you guys when you watch old episodes and stuff like that?

Bryan For sure.

Mike Oh totally, yeah.

Bryan With the writing especially. I-I often-it's just there's so much back and forth, and it h-it happens over such a long period of time that I kinda just like...

Ben [Interjects.] Yeah, completely forget stuff, right.

Bryan And I-I-these characters are so real to me a lot of the times that I just think, "well, that's what Bolin said," I don't think, "oh, that's what Mike wrote," [Jeremy chuckles.] or, you know, [Ben and Jeremy affirm.] that's what I wrote even, you know, [Jeremy affirms.] on Book One. And like I just kinda forget.

Ben Does that stretch back to Avatar and the-now that you're watch...

Mike [Interjects.] Now, that's a-like a distant memory. [Ben affirms intermittently.] Sometimes it'll be on the TV in the kitchen, I'm just like, "whoa, I totally forgot about that." [Ben and Mike laugh.]

Bryan Aw man. Yeah, because it's so weird, you live with it so intensely for, you know, uh, with Avatar, about ten months per episode, sometimes a year; Korra, the episodes are well over a year. So, you're living with this episode step by step by step; and then it's done, you never wanna see it again, [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur; laughs.] you're like, "I'm done". So, you-you just wipe the hard drive, and then, like, yeah, years later, you'll s-you'll see it. And so, it definitely is buried in your brain, every li-every frame of it, but you're like, "man, I haven't thought about that a long time."

Ben [Refers to Wan's death many years after his battle with Vaatu.] I love this emotional-I love the way this episode ends.

Mike So, these...

Jeremy [Interjects.] Oh, don't-don't stop talking, guys. [Makes several distraught noises; Mike and Jeremy laugh.]

Bryan [Refers to Wan's final breath manifesting as golden light dissipating in the air.] This might be the fir-the first...

Jeremy [In the background.] Change the subject. [Ben chuckles.]

Bryan ... on-screen, clear death we've ever shown.

Mike [Laughs.] Yeah, maybe.

Ben It's so beautiful, though.

Jeremy Wow.

Ben I love that. [Mike affirms.]

Jeremy Now, I should mention Hong Wang who did all the Chinese instruments. [Ben and Mike affirm.]

Bryan He is amazing.

Jeremy Beautiful performance.

Bryan Such a good musician. [Jeremy affirms.]

A brief pause in commentary until the scene fades in from a white screen, where a newborn infant, the first reincarnation of Wan as the avatar of Raava's spirit, was crying, to an extreme closeup shot of Korra, her opened eyes glowing with the white energy of her past lives.

Jeremy Reincarnation.

Mike Whoo-hoo!

Ben Tight, that's tight, guys. [Mike laughs; Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.]

Bryan [Laughs; refers to when Korra remembering who she is, telling the Bhanti sage that she is the Avatar.] I don't know that we're gonna as uh, amazing of an experience when we go to the sensory deprivation chambers [Mike affirms; Ben and Bryan chuckle.] down the street, [Jeremy chuckles.] but we can only hope. [Imitates his fellow commentators.] "I'm the Avatar," "No, I'm the Avatar!" [Jeremy and Ben laugh.]

Mike [Refers to the elder Bhanti sage showing Korra a herd of grazing flying bison the sages have tended to since the Hundred Year War.] And then we get to see a lotta bison! Yay!

Jeremy Yay.

Mike They're okay. [Jeremy laughs.]

Bryan So, yeah, the-the uh, I had a little girl ask me the other day, "you know, you said that Appa was the last bison. How come there's all these bison now?" and, you know, I-I pointed out that even in 2013 when she asked me, I was like, "they-they are still finding new species in the world," you know, and uh, the idea is there was another species of bison, and uh, they-they found them. She did not like that answer. [Mike, Jeremy and Bryan laugh; refers to the flying bison Korra flies off on missing the point of its right horn.] We broke the horn on that one [Mike affirms.] to give it a little-look different than Oogi; [Jeremy gives an affirming murmur.] we did the same thing on Appa's mother.

Mike Oh, really? [Jeremy gives a curious murmur.]

Bryan Yeah, I was looking through some old designs the other day...

Jeremy [In the background.] Wow.

Bryan ... and I was like, "oh yeah, we've done that little trick before."

Mike Look at that.

Ben There we go.

Bryan It's kinda hard...

Mike [Interjects.] Guess there's o-so many ways you can make a bison look different.

Bryan Yeah, [Jeremy and Bryan chuckle.] it's hard in the animation. Well thanks, Track Team!

Mike Yeah, thanks, guys.

Jeremy Thank you, guys.

Ben And thanks for having us.

Jeremy Pleasure, pleasure.

Ben It's always a pleasure. Thanks, everyone, for watching.